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| 12-05-2007, 20:33 | #1 | Full Member | Serial Numbers on Springfield M1 Garand Hello all,
I have just recently purchased a Springfield M1 Garand. There are markings on it that I would like to find informaiton about. Here is what I am talking about:
On the Bolt: D28287-19SA..underneath that is D-17
On trigger housing : D28290-14-SA
Is there someplace on the internet to locate what these mean?
Receiver SN# Goes back to May 1945
The barrel has markings on S-A-4-50, with what also looks like an ' M ' or a ' W ' about 5 inches to the left of the date.
I know the barrel doesnt match the manufacture date, but what about the Bolt and Trigger houseing?
Thanks in advance!
Rchjr |
| 12-05-2007, 20:40 | #2 | Full Member | How much did you pay? Rusty ones with dinged up stocks go for around $650-$800 at gun shows here. I wish I could find a decent one for about $500 __________________
Ammo - Buy it cheap and stack it deep!
'The answer to 1984 is 1776' - Alex Jones |
| 12-05-2007, 20:53 | #3 | Full Member | 93sr20det,
I paid $650.00 for it, the stock is what caught my eye. It is not original but a very darkish burgendy color that is very nice looking when oiled. I have no idea what kind of wood it is. I fired it today, this is the first time I have ever fired or loaded one. I had read in the manual about the ' garand thumb ' and was worried about getting my thumb caught. Consequently the first 3 clips I fired thru it, they all ejected after the third or fourth round. At first I had bought a lemon, then I read the manual again and loaded it more correctly I guess. I had no problems after that, I just made sure the magazine was down all the way and have thumb gone!
All in all I am very happy with it. What a monster
Thanks for the reply
Rchjr |
| 12-06-2007, 07:25 | #4 | Full Member Location: Whittemore, Michigan | When loading, place your thumb near the shoulder of the case, and keep the flat of your hand alongside the stock. That way if the bolt does come forward (not all of them do, and the clip itself can influance this also) it will first contact your hand which will force your thumb out of the way of the bolt.
BTW, the Garand isn't the only system that can bite you, my wife got her thumb caught in a SKS bolt, the stripper clip slot did a nice job of 'holding on' too. Seems she pushed the cartridge to far to the rear and tripped the 'hold open latch' releasing the bolt. |
| 12-06-2007, 08:39 | #5 | Full Member | Sks Tailgunner,
You are right about the sks, I have one as well and have had it get my thumb. I sure would not like being in battle with that rifle and have to reload it very fast.
Thanks for the reply,
Rchjr |
| 12-06-2007, 09:40 | #6 | Full Member | I wish I could find a decent one for about $500 |
See if you qualify to buy one from CMP. http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm __________________
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| 12-14-2007, 12:40 | #7 | Full Member | Once you start looking at part numbers...it can become a habit forming.
The books you should get a hold of IMHO..are the ones by Scott Duff.
http://www.scott-duff.com/DuffBooks.htm#m1Garand
Then there is the one by Poyer who has this web site....
http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm
Aloha, Mark |
| 05-08-2008, 21:59 | #8 | Full Member | Looks as if you have quite a few '45 issue parts, including the trigger housing and bolt. Late style locking bars would be great. An 'NFR' cartouched stock would be ideal--I just found a nice one with, unfortunately, a bad crack, which I am repairing for yet another
restoration. Harrison, despite a few errors, has about the best detail parts assortment info. The general concepts in my books, photographically, are decent, too, albeit a lot of people ignore the McClain
rule: 'Never say never, and NO date is absolute!' |
| 05-09-2008, 03:07 | #9 | Full Member | On the Bolt: D28287-19SA..underneath that is D-17
On trigger housing : D28290-14-SA
The barrel has markings on S-A-4-50, with what also looks like an ' M ' or a ' W ' about 5 inches to the left of the date. |
Numbers you are asking about are drawing numbers. They reference the engineering drawings used to manufacture the rifle. On the bolt, you use drawing number 28287. The -19 is a reference to the revision of the drawing number. Lower drawing numbers are generally related to early parts. The SA is a reference to Springfield Armory. The D-17 is the heat lot of the metal used in the bolt. HTH, a lot of generalities. As you dig into collector Garands you'll find lots of exceptions to the rules. Get Scott Duff's books as mentioned above. |
| 05-09-2008, 09:53 | #10 | Full Member | As noted, the trigger housing and bolt are definitely in the proper range. Trying to get a 'date correct' barrel can lead to a lot of frustration. There are more fakes than real, and some very tired ones being sold to the unwary only capable of measuring the costmetics. Plus, 1945 tubes are BRUTALLY expensive if/when found. A set of 'squared corner' (some people call them 'type 3') locking bar sights would DEFINITELY be right, although with a lot of this stuff, restoring means going back to the older style parts like the locking bars and uncut rods, found to have serious flaws. Correct rod would be a -9, of course, and they're fairly common. Based on what I was told in years of interviews with medics and corpsmen, though, I'd avoid actually USING an uncut version thereof. Still, the main thing, other than the appreciation, is the shooting. Have you had the '50 barrel gauged? |
| 01-22-2012, 23:29 | #11 | Full Member | my m1 garand hey all just thought id try this out. im interested in buying a m1 garand that a guy bought in 2003 when springfield armory started remanufacturing these i was told. he bought the gun brand new for a little under 1100.00. the gun is in excellent shape but i can find anything about it. the seriel # is in the 7 million range. he said they only made about 5 thousand of these. does any of this sound familiar. he showed me the certificate by springfield armory. i was just curious. any help would be appreciated. thanks |
| 01-23-2012, 10:27 | #12 | Full Member | It's a standard, non-specification, non-GI rifle, worth far less than a real M1 Garand. Springfield Armory, Incorporated, is in Illinois, nothing whatsoever to do with the real U.S. Armory, which was in Massachusetts. You can get an upgraded CMP rifle, a vastly better unit, for this money or less. The receiver is a cheap casting, not a forging.
What you're observing is worth perhaps $400. |
| 01-23-2012, 17:44 | #13 | Full Member | im not familiar with the m1. what can you tell me about this gun. where they not made to specs by springfield when they were remanufactured. will it tell on the receiver if it is a forging or a cast receiver. if this is true then i sure dont want to spend the money on it. he is trying to sell it to me for 700, is this gun not worth the 700? its to bad cuz this gun is in immaculate condition. also will this gun not shoot very well because of what you have told me. can you tell me where i can have this gun checked out. any help would be appreciated. thanks |
| 01-23-2012, 18:45 | #14 | Full Member | O.K., you need to go to a book store or to a library and get my books, Scott Duff's, even Canfield's. NO SAI receiver is a forging. Period. ALL military M1 Garand receivers, Italian or U.S. produced, are FORGINGS, and therefore many times stronger. The rifle you are looking at is NOT, never was, and never could BE a military rifle, anywhere, at any time, for anyone. U.S. Military production of the M1 Garand ended in 1956 at serial numbers just over 6 million. Italian production by Breda and Beretta went on MUCH longer, but is not relevant to this conversation. Anything numbered higher than 6.1 million or not made by one of the REAL military contractors, and therefore inherently CANNOT be to specification. The first line of the specification/drawing packet reads, 'Receiver shall be produced from a forging of 8620 steel..' These things you are looking at have NO collector's value AT ALL. Period. Nobody said it wouldn't shoot well, albeit it is reasonable to presume a used USGI rifle from the CMP will outlast it many times, and be cheaper in base price, too.
If you look closely, with a magnifier, at the data legend on the receiver horseshoe behind the rear sight, near the manufacturer's name, you will see a 'circle r', which is a copyright mark. That identifies it as having been produced by Springfield Armory, Incorporated, NOTHING TO DO WITH AND ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO the actual U.S. Springfield Armory. ALL of their production, even their later 'M1A' M14 clone, is castings. Period. No exceptions, no footnotes.
Again: hearsay is a waste of time. The valid literature is the ONLY guide.
Everything noted above is covered in all the valid scholarly literature.
You can verify that very easily.
A service grade CMP rifle will cost less than is being asked for this cast-receivered non-military rifle. And it WILL have collector's value.
This rifle was made sometime after 1975 or so, was never military, and is NOT a specification rifle. This is all chapter and verse of the valid literature.
It is a civilian copy. |
| 01-23-2012, 19:03 | #15 | Full Member | ok not trying to upset you...lol. like i said im new to the m1. im a little confused. were these just some cheap knock offs remade by someone else for springfield armory. can i expect this gun to function properly. i just wanted it for the gun range mainly but not if its not going to do what i want it to do. maybe i will just walk away from this one all together. one more thing what about the certificate of authenticity that came with this rifle signed by springfield armory. like i said earlier..im not trying to ruffle your feathers here. |
| 01-23-2012, 19:04 | #16 | Full Member | what is SAI sorry |
| 01-23-2012, 19:21 | #17 | Full Member | i get what your saying. so im going to start looking for another one. shouldve known this one was too good to be true. what can you tell me to look for when i find another one. thanks again for your help. |
| 01-23-2012, 19:56 | #18 | Full Member | This is about information, not ruffling feathers. SAI=Springfield Armory, Incorporated, a private firm initiated by Bob Reese about 1973 in Geneseo Illinois, with an office in Springfield. Never made a military rifle, never made a forged, real military M1 Garand. Springfield ARMORY (United States Government) still stands in Springfield, Massachusetts, but is no longer manufacturing anything, and produced every major U.S. military firearms long gun design actually adopted, most prototypes, and most others from about 1800 to 1968. The two are COMPLETELY UNRELATED except for the usurpation of the name by the private firm. Their parts code is 'SA' on the real thing.
A COA (Certificate of Authenticity) is a sort of joke when it comes from a private firm. If you read theirs closely, it says its the same design, etc., etc., but nothing about it being to actual, solid USGI specification (nothing that matters, anyway!) or ever having seen or even been considered for actual military service.
Sort of like the 'Franklin Mint', which is a mint in the sense of making commemorative coins, but has no place in the offical or empowered structure of anything, they're just another private firm.
Contact the CMP and get a service grade, late issue (serial number from 4.2 million to 6.1 million) and you'll have a real shooting machine with actual collector's value, and it will increase in value over the years.
All civilian M1's are from castings. Period. No exceptions. Even the beautiful Italian Breda and Beretta Garands are made from high quality FORGINGS, whose strength is vastly superior.
Again, before buying a serious rifle, invest in some literature (books). In addition to giving you serial number information, most of the better books on the Garand include key maintenance information.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program is the best place to get a Garand, unless you are very, very lucky. Service grades are available now.
Secured Servers - Sitemap (would not accept CMP website link.???)
$649.95 shipped, and that's for an HRA or SA. The REAL Springfield Armory! Not the private company in an entirely different part of the country. |
| 01-23-2012, 20:28 | #19 | Full Member | does the buyer have the choice of HRA or SA. is one better than the other. obviously i would think that the SA would be better. how do i go about getting one from CMP. i get what you are saying now. thanks for clearing this up for me, now i just have to find a way to tell the guy i no longer want this gun....do you check this site everyday for posts. thanks again |
| 01-23-2012, 20:44 | #20 | Full Member | lol on the barrel it is stamped springfield geneseo....the numbers on the bolt slide is d28287-12SA 8-060 |
| 01-23-2012, 22:04 | #21 | Full Member | I don't check on this site frequently at all.
I am subscribed to a couple of threads, and get e-mail notices.
ANY GI postwar receiver--HRA, IHC, SA, Breda, or Beretta--will usually be superior in overall quality and strength to earlier, wartime units, but more important, being newer means less fatigue.
You need to JOIN the CMP. First joining the Garand Collector's Association is the easiest way. Go to their website and read the data, or send for a brochure. Failing that, there are often displays at gun shows.
Check some of the other threads in here for more data, by the way.
You may choose HRA or SA. I am partial to both, and basically have no preference. This is not a case of 'better', it's a case of 'real' and 'forged'. |
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